SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hi, friend, and welcome to the Dreamers Podcast, the show where we explore bold dreams, highlight inspiring stories, and the real journeys behind them. I'm your host, Lydia Ingenieri, and each episode I sit down with creators, founders, visionaries, and everyday people who dared to imagine more and did something about it. This isn't just about success. It's about the setbacks, the turning points, the late nights, and those moments when quitting felt easier than continuing. So whether you're building something new, standing at a crossroads, or simply searching for inspiration, you're in the right place. So take a breath, lean in, and let yourself dream a little bigger. This is the Dreamers Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Dreamers Podcast. I am so grateful that you are here with us today. If this is your first time tuning into the podcast, welcome. Thank you so much. You are going to be incredibly blessed by the story and the testimony that you are going to hear today. But before we dive into that, I want to encourage you to subscribe to this podcast. Just take a minute and share it right now with your sphere of influence. Download the episodes. And this podcast is really intended to build your faith, disturb the dreams that are in your heart, hence why we call it the Dreamers Podcast. And to just enlighten you with amazing stories that are just incredible to help spur you on in your journey. So subscribe. Thank you so much for being here. And today's guests are dear, dear friends of mine, Chris and Kara Clayton. Welcome to the podcast. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. Oh, this conversation is going to be so good because today we are going to be talking about family. We're going to be talking about your journey as a family, where you have been these last 20 plus years, 25 years as a married couple, and the amazing miracles that God has woven into your story. You are an amazing family. We have gotten the privilege in our family to live life with you now for about 12 years, which is crazy. That time has just flown by.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Kind of seems like a couple years in some ways. And then in other ways, it's like, wait, do I remember life without y'all now?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

I know. I I know I don't really remember life without you guys. And I remember when we first met you, Chris, through songwriting. I think back in like 2014, something like that. And then the next year we got to meet Kara and then the boys. And what a timely blessing you guys were in our lives at that time, not only for me and Scott, but also the boys, because you have four amazing teenage boys, and we had two two boys at the time, and um they really have become each other's brothers. It's been so beautiful to watch their relationship unfold over these years. So thank you for being here today.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Oh, what an honor. Thank you for asking. This is great.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

And one thing that I love to do on the podcast is I always like to go back to the beginning of the story. And so today we're gonna journey through your story. So talk to us about how you met, what were you doing when you met, and now you're both the oldest in the family. You are, yeah. So there's so there's for better or for worse.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yes, we never try like butt heads or anything or try to take control.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, so this this is gonna be fun to kind of talk from the perspective of two oldest. Um, we both come from great families, and so just take us to the beginning. Share your story.

SPEAKER_05 3:59

Yeah, maybe jump off. Sure. Go for it. I'll do it. We met in college. Uh we met at Dallas Baptist University in the fall of 1996. Um, I'm from Southeast Texas, she's from North Texas, Dallas area, and uh DBU was a family school, so we I went there and um met her. She doesn't remember this, but I met her like first or second week of freshman year. Okay. Um we were actually I genuinely do not remember that part.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

But we're I've tried so hard.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

Yeah. Um that's okay. We we uh we actually got set up on a kind of quasi-blind date a little bit. Um we we there's a homecoming banquet at school. Um I didn't have tickets. I wasn't planning on going to this thing. I didn't know my friends were going to it. A mutual friend of ours connected us together and said, Kara doesn't have a date, you don't have a date, y'all should just go as friends. And um on that first date, we actually got lost on the way to the to the banquet in the hotel.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

You did?

SPEAKER_05 4:59

But we did.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

To this day, I think it's to be determined whether it was intentional on his part or not. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_05 5:05

I'll carry that to my grave.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

We were lost, we were lost for a few hours. We were with my best friend and her boyfriend, who is now has been husband for 26 plus years behind us. But so we weren't alone.

SPEAKER_05 5:19

I I was smitten after after one date.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

How could you not be?

SPEAKER_05 5:23

I mean, look at her.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I know.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

Uh and uh I pursued her for a year. It took me a year to get a second date.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Wow, I do remember that.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

Yes. Um there that was a long year. Yeah. Um, but we we served together and uh in in ministry, campus ministry there at DBU on worship team and stuff like that. So we were around each other constantly. Um and uh I finally had it was a lot of my fault because I I didn't have the nerve to really ask uh for a second date until uh the second banquet came up that that year.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Interjection, I tease him a little bit because in high school and up to that point I was kind of like outgoing, had lots of friends, like loved doing all the things. When I met him, he was like a hermit in his college storm room. Like he'll admit it. Yeah, and then what I tease him because I'm like, once we started dating, then he got to know everybody and did all the things. I'm like, I brought you out of your shell. And then now he's the one everyone knows. So we traded places. So that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

Yeah, so we got it. We went, we went to the homecoming bank with our our first sophomore year. Okay, and uh finally she drank the Kool-Aid and I won't say fell in love, but we we quickly we quickly uh started dating after that, and then uh it just snowballed. We dated three years in college. Okay, got married right out of college, January. We graduated in May, got married in January, and um yeah, just started this whole life of ministry and popping kids out, which we'll get into actually.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

And you just celebrated your 25th wedding anniversary. You guys, congratulations! That is such a huge milestone. That's incredible. So, what were you studying in college at the time, Kara?

SPEAKER_05 7:13

Well, yeah, she's actually the real musician.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

I actually was studying music and have a degree in church music. Uh-huh. And then he was actually studying business. So again, I feel like it's kind of funny because upon becoming a mom, I laid down music over time a little bit more, and he, you know, was picking up the baton in the music area. But we've definitely both I mean, since I was little, music was a part of everyday life. Yeah. Um in my family. My mother was a pianist, beautiful pianist. And so in church, we were constantly singing, and my mother was playing for us and all the things in church. Amazing. So that's been my whole life. And then taught music in school with the boys and taught private voice. Um, but genuinely just wanted to be a mom. My I mean, since I was little, that's the I'd say number one thing when people would ask me what you want to be, what do you want to do when you grow up? I wanted to be a mom. Um I loved watching my mom. We had six kids. Little little bit on my background, you know, just prior to prior to college and what put families so near and dear to my heart. We there was six kids. I was the oldest of six, and we had a wide range. I'm almost 16 years older than my youngest sister. Okay. Um it was almost kind of like two families, although it was the same parents, but there were two of us that were real close in age and then a 10-year gap. Okay. Um, or eight-year gap between the second one and the third one. Okay. And then four more, you know, there was the four more. And so I kind of helped raise them a bit prior to going to college and then getting married, but they were like little kids when we got married, you know. Interesting. Um, which was a lot of fun. And I cherish that now with our story, having older ones and a younger one. I see how intentional God was in giving me that experience. Yeah. Um, even he had a little bit of that. He's what, nine years older than your youngest brother or your younger brother. And so, yeah, up until college, even though I music was a huge part of my life, so I was like, yes, I'm getting a music degree. Family was still what I really wanted to have. Yeah. Um, and so I don't know, they always your senior year, it's like ringed by spring, you know, that's like the running joke when you're at a Christian college, you know. And so but I don't know that that was my goal going into school, but it definitely, I mean, upon meeting and falling in love and then knowing we wanted to get married, I just think it made sense to me. Yeah, family was what God had laid on my heart since I was young. And I knew if I wanted a bunch of kids, which he wasn't sure he wanted a bunch, but I knew I wanted okay. I was gonna ask one of the so we had that conversation when we were dating, and I'm pretty sure he always said two or three.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

Yeah, well, because uh um we could fit my whole family up on both these couches almost.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Right.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

I'm a very small family. Um, and she I think the first time I ever went over to her house when we were dating, one of the first times on a holiday, there's like 50 people in the house. And I I remember having to go outside and like the air regulate just to like decompress for a minute, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

I think my family felt a little more like a circus to him compared to his family.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

I'm sure it was a change.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Um, and the first time I ever went to anything where his entire family was going to be, he had told me I was flying to Beaumont by myself for his sister's high school graduation, and he said, My entire family, both sides will be there. My expectations, that's gonna be a bunch of people. And I think, you know, there was maybe 10 total, all of us. Top awesome. And so I just remember at one point I leaned over to him and I said, When does everyone else get here? And he looked at me with this confused look. I looked at him with a confused look, and he said, What do you mean? And I said, You said everybody was gonna be here from both sides of your family. And he was like, We're here. I was like, Oh, hysterical. So it's just funny. I mean, our both of our experiences, you know, yeah, the first time meeting our whole entire families were just polar opposite. Yeah. So so yeah, and when we had those conversations in college, we didn't our numbers didn't exactly line up.

SPEAKER_05 11:51

Because I'm the oldest of three. So she's the oldest of six. So I didn't grow up with a lot of things. Siblings is like she did. So it was uh I really didn't, I don't know if I even had a number, but yeah, I don't think five was on the radar.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Oh, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

But here we are.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Here we are, and you got five. Yeah. So you start having kids and but you had your boys very close together. Was that intentional because you did not want to have them spread apart because you both kind of grew up spread apart from your siblings? Intentional? No. That was a dumb question.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

But it's a valid question a lot of people ask. Like, did y'all plan that? No, we did not. But like every year for you know, four years old from 2003 to 2008. So if you do the math, then that's a five-year stretch, but it's September to May, so it's less than five years. It was a little over four and a half years. We had four boys, and so it was um yeah, it was her pregnant era.

SPEAKER_05 12:56

Yeah, yeah, yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

You're beep root and multiple. So I I like to give credit to the Lord. Yeah, we did not plan it, but we fully believed God was sovereign. Yes, and so while our emotions were having to catch up with his plan, we we trusted him. Yeah. Um, and I remember sitting on a dock, we were at a summer camp. He led every summer, he would lead worship at summer camps. That was since we first initially got married, and Cohen was five years old. So they were five to almost ten years old that summer. And I remember he was helping them fish. And I don't touch fish or worms on hooks or any of that. But I was watching them and they were just, I mean, eating it up. They loved going to camps with their dad and watching him lead, you know, all these teenagers and worship. And then here we are sitting on the stock, they would always get to do these fun activities. Um, it was vacation to them. They thought he had hung the moon that he would take us in a 15-passenger van like to camp. I remember I had been questioning up until then, Lord, why me? Like, I'm not, you know, I can't raise four boys. Like, this is wild. Like, and it was. I mean, there were a lot of crazy moments. Um, but I remember sitting on that dock like it was yesterday, watching them laugh and giggle and fish and you know, catch these little dinky fish and be so excited about it. And I just remember it was there on that lake or pond or whatever it was in Texas that God just showed me and just kind of spoke to my heart and said, I knew all along that you would love this.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

And I do.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah, I really do. And you know, there was a I think there was some apologizing on my part. Like, I'm sorry, Lord, for questioning and not trusting you.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

That's really, really powerful. What a beautiful thing that he knew a desire within you that maybe you didn't even quite know yet.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I wanted a girl desperately. Yeah. And he knew that. Yeah. Um even when Cohen he remembers when we were when I was pregnant with Cohen. Corbin was four years old when he had just turned four when we found out, you know, a few months later that Cohen was a boy. And Corbin had been telling everybody, we're gonna have a girl. It's gonna be a girl. God knows we need a girl because we already have three boys. And he desperately wanted a little sister. Of course. We found out it was a boy. I'll never forget the weeping from that child. You remember?

SPEAKER_05 15:53

I remember we weeped a lot. We wept together. We love you, Cohen, by the way. And Cohen knows your story.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

This is not new to him. Um, we wept together with our four-year-old as he asked us, why would God do this?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

He knows we already have three boys, Mom, and he knows I want a sister. I was like, and we that was, I think, um, I don't know, I think that was really um God was asking us to reach into the depths of how much we trusted him. Were we willing to teach our son at four years old by our actions and our words that we trusted God knew what we needed. Wow. And you know, the day that Cohen was born, Corbin instantly fell in love with that sweet little Cohen. Um, and Cohen, you know, we would never ever change that it was a fourth little boy. Um, and I loved being a boy mom. Yeah, I still love being a boy mom now as they're you know 17 to 22 years old. It has been one of the greatest privileges of my life to walk alongside those boys as they grow and walk alongside him as their mom and dad. Um but it is so wild to me to just you know experience the you know like piece by piece the depth of how much God knows how he wove us together from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yes. Chris, what was your perspective on now you have four boys and so close together, and you know, you weren't even sure how many kids maybe you wanted at the start. How did all that feel for you as you were navigating that?

SPEAKER_05 17:41

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

You were in ministry too, full-time ministry as well.

SPEAKER_05 17:46

I mean, she alluded, you know, I was traveling lean worship and uh spent some time on church staff, uh, was producing and writing, and my studio was in our house at the time in in Texas. So we've got four little boys running around, and I'm trying to do studio work in a house. How'd that go?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

And we didn't we don't have quiet, like you know, subdued boys.

SPEAKER_05 18:11

I mean it they they they love I they I think they loved having people around the house, you know, especially Callan. He's not bashful with relationships, and so he would just talk to anybody and they all talk to some degree, but um I think the yeah, I I think I didn't know I didn't know what I didn't know at that point as a dad. I think I think it was more just trusting the process a little bit, but also being ignorant to the process of what the Lord was was doing. Um it's a lot easier to look back now and go, I know why he was taking us through certain seasons and raised them in certain ways, took you know, gave them certain bents. Yeah. Um I remember Corbin, uh who our oldest, um, I mean all of them, they would when I traveled, they used to I I bought him crew shirts one time one summer and they had my latest record on it and had the word crew on the back. They love helping unload the trailer.

unknown 19:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:05

And now to see Corbin, my son, do that as his job as a lighting director, it's like I I didn't know that was coming, you know, like kind of interject one thing there too about Corbin.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

He from by 18 months old or so had an impeccable rhythm and would play drums with anything he could play drums with and on, and people would come around corners and be like, Who's doing and and then see this little tiny thing playing drums? And so we've I think we both thought he's gonna be a drummer. Yeah, and we were getting excited because here we are in music. We were like this is your future band, right here. It's it's beginning, it's starting, you know. But then I don't I don't know, do you know remember what age he was when he just lost interest? I don't remember maybe eight or nine, ten, I forget. Um, all the boys at one point were interested in playing together, and then Corbin just kind of lost interest, and baseball became his world, and that was another test, I think, on our part. Just kind of like, are we willing to not push our kids into something that we want for them instead of letting them do something that they truly desire? And that was hard because we're musicians and it would have been fun to have a drummer. And so I questioned, I think both of us probably questioned throughout the years, Lord, why would you give him rhythm like that not just to not use it? Well, he does with lighting, yeah. It was just in a way that we couldn't see coming, but that was another testament to just trusting the Lord in his timing, like just wait because there's things that God's doing that sometimes we we push pause and we have no idea, like we might it might feel like a loss, I think in for the time being and maybe for years, but later to be picked back up and for God to say it was for now. You know, like it's not at He doesn't waste anything, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Amen. So talk a little bit about what it was like though, uh like doing the ministry with the kids, and like you know, because this is the place that so many young parents find themselves in. Is like we want to have a family, we also want to do this ministry thing, whatever this looks like, or start this business, or launch out on this, or launch out on that. But how do you do that with kids in a way that I don't feel like I'm turning into a crazy person and I want to maintain health in my family? Like, what what were some things that you did to maintain that that health in your family, but also really move forward in your career and in your ministry life?

SPEAKER_05 21:36

Yeah, well, once once we started having kids, it you know, it it proved hard to travel out during the school year as a family because they were obviously in school. And um I would I would be traveling out a lot of weekends for conferences or church events or whatever. And so during the school year I I I would go out without 'em, and that was hard. Especially as the you know, having four boys in five roughly five years, it's like leaving her at home with four boys. It it had its own set of challenges to do that. We made it, I I made it a priority we after talking with her that summer times were gonna be the times that we we just did it together. And it was almost, for lack of a better word, an ultimatum. Whenever someone would call to book me to do a summer camp, I'm like, hey, I bring my family with me. Um, you know, this is what I'm gonna need to make that happen. You know, I've gone so much, you know, I'd be gone six six to eight weeks of summer. I'm not gonna be gone from them six to eight weeks and just miss out on them. And it really turned into, like she said earlier, like this adventure and vacation for them. I mean, they they they had been to so many youth camps before they actually were in student ministry. Right. They were pros at going to youth camp.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Cohen actually mentioned he just went on his last retreat this last weekend, just a few days ago. He said, This is my last one, mom, other than camp in the summer. And he said, I've grown up at these.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

So yeah, I I I think that was it's you just have to put the boundaries on it. You know, that was what I feel like we just had to do. Is just if if dad's gonna be out doing this kind of ministry, and and and that feels like ages ago because I don't even travel anymore like that, but I look back and going that those were valuable summers to the formation of our family, especially the boys just being so close knit to each other. I mean, they they just they ran around those camps and those events constantly. They they interacted with the rec team, they interacted with the camp staff, they just they almost owned the joint, you know. They just they they expected free snacks at the snacks at the concession stand. I mean they were in the middle of it all, and I and I'm so grateful for that. Um, and they have it what's cool is like the speakers that we would be with, they would they still have relationships with them on Facebook, you know, and on socials. And um, you know, they just they grew up in that culture, and uh, I think that was a huge formation early on to the unity of our family. Yeah, it was never perfect, it's hard. I I won't I won't gloss it over. It was hard to pile in four boys. Usually one of her sisters would go to help nanny and help her out because I'm so tied up doing stuff, and you know, we'd drive hours and hours in a van and then set up and do that and live in you know, all the things, live in tents, yeah. So uh it it you know it it had a set of challenges, but I I think you would ask any of the boys if they were sitting here, do you wish you didn't do that and waste your summer instead of being with friends? And they would probably tell you, I that was they loved it, much like Cohen just said. I mean, the memories, the experiences, the unity that was is built was unjust unlike anything else.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

That's right. That is so awesome. So you're the boys are now getting a little older. Um, you're still living in Texas, and God calls you to Tennessee. But before that, I think is kind of when this thought, this dream of a girl still had not left you. So talk about like was this, hey, we're gonna be crazy and try for a fifth one, or was, or did you just know that maybe adoption is the route that we want to go? Like, talk to us about okay, so this thought never left, this dream never left. What what happened?

SPEAKER_05 25:22

Yeah. Well, back to our dating story. Early on, even when we were dating, we both had conversations pretty quickly about adoption being a part of what we would love our family to look like. So this was kind of part of your family. This was a this was very foundational. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Um and if I can speak on that just for two seconds, I don't I I can't even really pinpoint I'm not sure for you. I can't even really pinpoint when it was in my high school college years that I just felt this call to adopt. I just felt like God was saying one day you are to adopt. That will be a part of your family. I didn't know anybody who had adopted. I didn't know any kids or like didn't have friends who'd been adopted, and no one in my family had adopted. So I honestly I think God just used scripture, you know, in James, you know, he says that you know, true religion, pure and true religion is taking care of widows and orphans, you know, and then I I mean I and he calls, I mean, God calls himself the father to the fatherless. So I think in our journey, as we talked about adoption and just wanting to follow Christ and you know be in ministry, I think that was just a part of it for me. It just I could not imagine I just felt like God was just saying this, like I'm calling you to this. And I think different times in our marriage, God's given us different pieces of feeling this willingness. But I I I think there's always been a desire somewhere I'm the oldest, I'm somewhat of a rule follower. So I feel like when someone has, you know, God's given me the grace, because it's not on my strength, but when someone tells me something's right and to do something, I want to follow. And thankfully, God has given me the strength to say yes, because not in our own strength, but I think that we said yes to adopt, because there's always questions, there's always fears with something that's unknown. Um that God gave us the strength to say yes, but I think in my heart, when I said yes, it was like sealed, it was done. Yeah. I don't know if that's smart or not, but that's how I felt. Yeah. Like, okay, this is gonna be a part of our life. We've I'll I'll say yes, Lord. Now you just do it. Like, but you're gonna do it. I b uh you know what I mean. It just was like this is gonna happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Yeah. I don't know if I had a specific moment of revelation. I don't know when the clouds parted and God imparted his word of adoption. Um I I remember I'm a big Stephen Curtis Chapman fan, and um to this day just adore his music, his ministry, um and not just his music, but his but his heart for adoption. You know, he's got Show Hope, and I would go to Stephen Curtis shows, and that was always a a a big thrust of his um stage time, which is talking about that that organization and his his him and Mary Beth's heart for adoption and why they started that because obviously they've adopted and uh their story, and I would I would hear those stories and just be so inspired about what they were saying. I honestly thought we were gonna adopt internationally for years. Yeah, I mean we we talked about that. Yeah, and um, you know, that was that was that and then I I I think there the the pivotal moment for me personally was uh my youth pastor Andy growing up. Um spent some time with him. I I was actually leading worship at a church, his church in San Antonio, and he was telling me about their uh a foster adoption story with their daughter and how it was a domestic adoption. And that just was foreign. I had never thought, you know, and we just got to talking about that. Um just really the the great need of our of of kids who need to be adopted who are in our own backyard, who live in the cities around us, and there's not not to belittle the international side, but there's so many people so many, so many boys and girls that just need a home around us. And that just that got me thinking. I shared that with her, and then that was kind of the maybe we start exploring this whole fostering or adoption look, you know, domestically here in we had no idea what it looked like. We had no idea what international. We knew we we knew what our heart wanted, but we had no idea what the process nor the journey ahead of us was gonna be. So um again, I I I say we probably we knew what we didn't know. You know, we just it's just that that that idea of was we we just the yes was there. Yeah, we don't know what to do next.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I just think God, I think so many times our hearts as humans want to know the details.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

And we want to control the how and the when and all these things, but I think so many times God is just asking us to be an all-in-yes. I remember at one point, this was four or five years before we moved to Tennessee, he and I very strongly felt like God was saying, pull up the anchor and be ready to move. We didn't know, we weren't even thinking out of state at that time. Yeah, we just thought, I mean, we weren't we were honestly I don't know what we thought. We but we both very strongly felt like God was saying, yank up that anchor and be ready to move. Well, I mean, it wasn't until years later.

SPEAKER_05 31:02

It was a new season. I had I left the church that I was on staff at, which is the church we spent all of our time in Texas at for 16 years. But I was on staff for a season, and I was just full-time production, songwriting, and at the time traveling. And so that was kind of the it was around 2011-12 when it was like, okay, well, nothing his tying us here per se job-wise. We have family here, but anchor up, and that's kind of been a mo uh kind of a motto in our family. Let's just we live life anchor up. Yeah, and um yeah, so I I I think to put it in perspective, like the dream was there, the calling was there, the we had like I said earlier, we don't we didn't know what the next steps were. And a lot of that was I don't think we wanted to know because I think it was very fearful. Um to give you timeline to kind of keep the story progressing. Like um, I I we we start investigating what it means to do the fostering system in Texas, like the training, the paperwork, all just this the red tape of what that started. We started, we had a couple in our neighborhood that had done adoption and and fostering. I think they did uh fostering as well, and they were a great kind of sounding board early on for us to kind of just ask questions. Um we had we had actually started a little bit of the training in Texas. This was yeah, roughly 2014, 2015, right when we met you.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

I remember too, you even put on your Facebook pages like we're adopting.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yes. So can I share the timeline? I have these I have these dates like seared in my memory because it it's just so powerful to me how God, when I look back at the actual dates, how we had no idea what God was doing, and so many times we felt so confused and so like, what in the world is the Lord doing? And terrified at times, um overwhelmed so many times, um, you know, just with our own the boys already, and then just ministry and doing life. Um, but I remember this he's talking about the timeline. We had in we had watched the movie Blind Side, because after the four boys, he was like, We gotta push pause. Yeah, because you were asking about all that. He was really like, I don't know, babe. And I I was kind of crushed at first, but just respected him and was like, Okay, we won't talk about adoption. Yeah, like I have to trust the Lord, but this is a lot. I mean, I had to hand it to him. This is a lot, the Lord has handed us a lot. Fast forward to the movie Blind Side coming out in the end of 2009, and we went to see that together, and he told me the next morning, he said, I babe, I'm not ready, but I know God's still calling us to adopt. You remember that? No, but I tried to again. It was that was monumental to me. I remember seeing the movie, yes. Yeah, it was monumental to me. We were sitting on our couch the next morning. My parents had actually kept the boys the night before, so it was just us two. And I remember I will never forget him saying that because that God was throwing me hope in that moment, you know, that it's still coming. That's right. Like I haven't left you, I haven't forgotten about you. And so then it was it was at some point in time in 2010, we started talking to the boys and kind of asking them what would you think? We're not talking about now, but what would you think about it? And that was the seven-year mark that 2010. If you look at when Cambria was born, 2017, right? No, 2018, so maybe it was 2011, but uh at least seven years before we started talking to the boys, and there was an empty room next to their room in our house. Now we had a five-bedroom house at the time, um, and all of the boys slept in one. Oh wow they loved being together. Wow. And then the room next to them that was empty the whole time we lived there. That room was empty. Maybe it held a few guitar cases and this and that from time to time. But um, they called that the sister room once we started talking about adoption. You remember this? Wow. And it had been the sisters room for five, five and a half years prior to us moving. And so we had started with an agency to get on track with where he was. We had started with an agency that we had found through this couple in Texas. Um and that was in the spring, early, like winter spring of 2016. Um, and then it was that spring and summer when God laid on our hearts to move here. And that was like it was like, wait, what? Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Like we just started out like in your plans, but it was really God bringing you into the place where you would eventually walk into the promise of this of this dream. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

Incredible. I think the the sisters room. Uh that that was, I mean, that wasn't just an internal term. That was the boys would tell people about we have this room in our house called the sister's room is for our sister one day. They had so much faith that this was gonna happen. Like they had so much a surety in in who they were and in the situation that one day we were gonna have a sister, and here we are going, oh yeah, we are. Okay, great. You know, I don't know how this is gonna happen, but this, you know, because you know, when you think adoption, and and those that are listening or watching that know how adoption works, it's thousands of dollars. Like it's it's a costly thing, and we're we're barely getting by with with what in ministry jobs and production and I mean it's just it was a whole you know, that was that was a whole nother number of that it just seemed so unattainable. Um but yet their faith was yeah unmoved by it, you know, and just their yeah, their assurance. And that that honestly kept probably kept us more in the game, if you will. This was gonna happen than they realized it than we realized it. Um can I share about my dream?

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yes, please, because I was gonna ask you about the dream. I think this falls in the timeline.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

Yes, yeah. Um, and I I'm a I'm a Southern Baptist boy, you know. Um getting having dreams and the Lord using dreams was just a foreign thing to me. Like, and and that's that's just how whatever. Sure, yeah, yeah. And I honestly, Lydia, cannot remember any other dream in my life right now except for this one dream. Uh, we were still living in Texas. This had to be a couple years before we we moved, and uh I had this dream that I was in a room um and there was a a large figure, I don't know how even describe him, other than just a very large non-human figure. I just I looked at him and I was just like, you're you're not like who other people, you know. This is it, it was very dark. And he was um guarding this baby, this brown baby. And uh, and I was facing this this person and uh essentially fighting him, I guess. And I remember I rescued the baby and I ran out of that room into a room of our family, like not just the boys, but like my parents and her parents, and it's like all I can remember saying was I I got her, I got her, yeah, I got her, and I woke up, and everybody was cheering and celebrating, and I woke up and I was just like, huh. Yeah, what was that? Yeah, and I shared that with her, and for the long time, longest time I didn't share it with anybody, I just shared it with her. And because I didn't know I didn't know what to do with that. Like, okay, well, it it was almost more frustrating than it was like celebratory, because here we are going, okay, we know what we're called to, we know what our dream is, and then you give me this. Well, yes, it should be some kind of assurance, but also it's very like frustrating. Um so that I I still process that some today. I still don't know what all that meant, and maybe I won't know for many other years of like the full story of that, but I don't want to get too ahead of the story, but it it started to make sense here shortly after we, you know, we moved to Tennessee. We moved we moved in 2016. Um I had signed a publishing deal out here, we were on the same team, and um and that's what I did about a year and a half of that in Dallas, was traveling a lot to Nashville um for rights and production stuff, and we were just like, I think it's time to move. And I was like, who at age 38 with four kids moves to Nashville? You're supposed to do that when you're 20. Well, I know, I know. I know thank God.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

But you had to go first.

SPEAKER_05 39:55

Um many ways, we were the guinea pig for a few people.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 39:58

Um, but uh it you know, and I I'll get more into this in a minute, but little did I know what and what we knew that it was it was set in motion, what it is set now in motion with yeah with our family.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

But yeah, so to keep going with the timeline, fall of 2017, birth mom was actually in St. Thomas and there was a hurricane um early in her pregnancy, which she didn't know about. And um she moved back to Tennessee. And so little did we know, we had moved in fall of 2016 to Tennessee, not knowing why would God push pause on our adoption, you know, again, like when we fur finally, you know, really get rolling on trying to move forward with this. We move fall of 2016, and then you know, birth mom wasn't even here, but then due to you know that massive storm that you know was bad in St. Thomas, but she was protected, um she moved back, and so she moves to Tennessee. So we're all in Tennessee now, not knowing anything about each other though, you know. And but I think about how God orchestrated those two moves, you know, with various things. Um, you know, he was preparing for our lives, you know, to meet. Um, and then January of 2018, I had a vision, which is really again, I wasn't raised Southern Baptist, but I was raised in a Bible church, which is basically the same, almost the same. Um, but I there was a couple that was a year to a couple years older than me from my high school um that had younger siblings as well. And their um the girls, it was these two girls, their dad was an evangelist, um, and I had grown up hearing him preach. And I got word one Sunday morning that Jana's one of Jana's daughters, they had three daughters, their middle daughter had been killed in a tragic accident the night before. And so it was like it was kind of going through like people were sharing from my graduating class, you know, with each other. So I had got a text from a friend asking if I'd heard about it, and I'm just weeping because I knew what the Lord was doing. Tim Lee, um, the evangelist, he's been an evangelist for over 50 years since his um he was in Vietnam and his legs were blown off, and he's had a powerful ministry for years and years. And I knew what God was doing. I was like, God's giving them yet another way to share the gospel through their grief. And I'm weeping in the shower as I'm getting ready to go to church. He was already at church, and I'm just weeping and I'm begging God, Lord, please don't call me to this road. Please don't take one of the boys away from me just to give us, you know, the opportunity to share through our grief. And I mean, I in that moment as I'm praying, please don't take one of the boys away from us, like from me. I I, you know, and I'm, you know, you're crying, my eyes are closed in the shower. And I literally had a vision, God gave me this vision of the heavens opening up. And I felt like I not I didn't really see a physical face, like I don't know what Jesus looks like. Yeah, but I felt like I saw Jesus in the heavens, I literally saw the clouds open up and saw Jesus standing with his arms around the four boys, and I just heard, I can't take something away that's already mine. Girl, I fell to my knees and just wept and wept and wept. And little did I know, that was in January of 2018. I didn't know what God was preparing my heart for, but I knew He was giving me another piece of how He makes family. And our kids are a gift to us, but they're really not ours. Mm-hmm. They're gods all along. I'm not my own. I'm God's. And we are all his creation, right? And so God gives us our children. And he was starting to help me to understand he's numbered our children's days. Yeah. And he gives us our children, but we don't know the number of their days. So my job as a mom is not to control those numb, you know, those days, um, or to protect them or myself or my husband from any pain that may come down the road, but to rather fully love and dive full into being a mom and a parent and be exactly who God created me to be as a mom. Little did we know what was coming that summer. You know, Cambridge was born that summer, but in spring, I don't know if you he will remember this, in the spring and April of that year, so shortly a few months later, um, a couple that had been in our life group in Texas for years that we knew well they were adopting. And birth mom was from like Ohio or somewhere up north, but was on vacation in Nashville about a month before the baby was due and had the baby while she was in Nashville. She went into labor early, had the baby, and so Kelly and John had to travel up here to Nashville, spur of the moment, to come up to get the baby. And Kelly needed a place to stay for a couple nights while they got the paperwork, you know, done to release the baby from the state of Tennessee, basically. And so they called us and said, you know, Kelly said, Is there any chance y'all would have room for me and the baby to come stay for a couple nights while I get, you know, yeah, the paperwork done, it's processed and everything. And she came and stayed. And I remember after she left, it was the sweetest couple, you know, just short days. Um, and I remember after she left, that played an instrumental role with us really just sealing the deal. We're ready to move forward again. Like we're in Tennessee, we've established residency in the state of, you know, in the eyes of Tennessee. Yeah, we're ready to move forward. So that was April, and we had a summer full of traveling planned. That was he was taking a class for his master's with DBU, and one of them was gonna be end with a Hillsong conference, right, in Australia.

SPEAKER_05 46:20

The class was the Hillsong Conference. We were gonna go to Sydney.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Yeah, that's right. And I was gonna go with him. Yeah, I was gonna go with him. So we had that planned. That was like a two and a half week trip. It was and the boys were gonna go to Texas, and so I was actually gonna fly back to Texas and spend a couple weeks in Texas after that, and then we were going to summer camp with our church um after that to lead he was leading worship. Um, and the boys and I were gonna go, and I mean, it was gonna be like six weeks of being out of town, something crazy, five and a half, six weeks. Um, and we were like, okay, well, when we get back in August, we'll start with an agency and we'll get the ball rolling on you know, moving again towards adopting. And then we had dinner.

SPEAKER_05 47:09

Um so I was on staff at a church at the time here in in Franklin, and uh uh I was worship one of the worship pastors and um we uh sweet couple um that lived close to us invited us over to their house. They had a just kind of a hangout pool, pool party time, you know, dinner, a bunch of just couples, kind of real informal. And um there was one of the couples that was there, an older couple who just been already influential in our life and just huge uh in our time here. Um we just kind of got that um unplanned one, you know, two-on-two time. And we were just talking and sharing and uh uh and the idea of uh the the call of adoption came up and we just were sharing basically everything we just shared in the story. We just kind of downloaded on them and they just listened so greatly. And um you know, we walked away from that with just that, oh that was amazing. We we pray for you, we cheer you on. Hope God allows that to you know transpire soon. And that was on a Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

That was June 16th.

SPEAKER_05 48:16

June 16th, Saturday. Yeah, um Sunday's Father's Day, the next day. I'm leading worship, I'm there. Um and do all, you know, do the Sunday thing, and we go home. Monday happens. Uh I'm in the studio. Uh I have a write that day. And so from 10 to 2, you know, I'm out of pocket. I'm we're writing, and um, I see a phone, we get done with the ride around two. My my phone had a little voicemail on it, um, which I still have the voicemail by the way. Um and it's my friend, our friend, uh the gentleman that we had just had this two-on-two conversation with, he calls and leaves a voicemail and was like, Hey, my wife and I are headed up north, um, but we just got a phone call from um some people in our church. Um, you guys had mentioned adoption um on Saturday. Um we have this literally his words were we have something that may be of interest to you.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 49:12

And I'm standing there in my studio, everybody had left. I'm standing there going, What in the world? Like, like I just felt this like and then all the while though, we had plans that night to go to the Ryman. It was third day's final concert on their tour, I'll never forget it. And they're already on their way to come get me. And I'm like, so I I'm back up. I call I call that I call our friend, yeah, and he just tells me, hey, there's a there is a there's a family in our church. Um their daughter just gave birth yesterday on Father's Day to a little girl. She's born in Franklin, she's in the NICU in Nashville, she's healthy. There's there's just some precautionary things that they're looking after. Yeah. Um, but they can't keep the baby. And we we thought of you. Wow. I mean, it was just that like cut and dry of like baby born, baby needs a home. You mentioned adoption.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 50:10

What do you think? And I was like, I I tell I joke, I tell people, I remember nothing of the conversation other than I just remember saying, I well, I probably need to talk to Kara about this. And and then I realized after I hung up, I said, they're coming to get me.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

And I'm like, Do I Yeah, like do I get up?

SPEAKER_05 50:29

Do I tell them now and potentially, you know, quote unquote distract, ruin our night? Because we've planned this for a long time to hang out at this concert, first time at the Ryman for the boys, like and I remember getting the car going, No, I'm not bringing this up right now. Like I I just this is yeah, I need this, I need to think about this.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

And so to this day, I don't know how he did that. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:50

Well, what was harder though is like we're at the Ryman. I don't I remember nothing of the show.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Your brain is like somewhere else. I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_05 50:59

I have to apologize to Mac Powell now. I remember nothing but which by the way, we got we got to meet Mac about a year later and share this exact story with him with Cambri. So we're at and it's I just told him that you're part of our adoption story, it's this show. And so uh the the crazy thing was Cambry is in the Nikki, literally 10 minutes away from us in downtown Nashville. And I'm just thinking about that the whole time. Like my potential daughter's literally within five to ten minutes of us of driving, and she doesn't need Karen doesn't even know about this. So we go to the show, we get home, it's you know, it's late, it's close to midnight, one o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

It was 1 a.m. Yeah I remember that.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

And I I'm I can remember it clear in my head as ever. She's already in bed. I'm brushing my teeth, and like I'm I'm like, before you go to bed, um I I gotta tell you something that happened today, and she's like, You can't tell me tomorrow. I'm like, nope, can't tell you tomorrow. Nope, can't tell you tomorrow. I'm about to explode.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

So I sat up because I was like, Yeah, what does he need to talk about at one in the morning?

SPEAKER_05 52:05

Yeah, so I just I basically just rehashed the story of our what the phone call.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Do you remember what at I did at the word baby?

SPEAKER_05 52:13

Yeah, she just started sobbing at baby. And I remember she even said that that's our daughter. That's our baby. That's our baby.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 52:20

And it was just like this there wasn't much sleep that night, obviously. And so we spent the next the next day just calling our friends who were kind of our go-between between the birth family. Eventually got in touch with you know, an attorney. We had we had no attorney, we had yeah, you know, we had nothing. We again we just had our yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

The state of Tennessee officially did not know we wanted to even adopt, you know what I mean? Like we there was no agency, it jumped the gun on everything.

SPEAKER_05 52:46

You know, this is called a you know, we're we're beginnings of what's called a private adoption now, and it was never on a radar, nor did we even know that was even possible. You know, like it was just there was a need. It was the church being the church, honestly. It was just the church going, Hey, there's a need, and you have a dream and a yes and to being obedient. What do you think? And of course, and so um so yeah, that that week was uh probably one of the most challenging weeks of our marriage in 25 years of of in and and just polarizing because it was a full full of us excitement. Yeah, we couldn't talk about it. Yeah, yeah, you know, we've got a whole community, y'all being part of that, that we couldn't even share this. Yeah, not because it was something secretive, but it's just like we didn't we didn't know what to share or how to share it yet, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

And and to bounce off that, you we were 20 years into this journey at that point. So part of why I think we felt like we couldn't share immediately was because there had been so many emotions already wrapped around this journey. Yeah, it felt like if we share this with a bunch of people, like all of a sudden, and then it doesn't work out, it's that much more emotional. It's that much more difficult. Yes. And so it felt like something that we needed to figure out as a family. And with a couple, I mean, I think there was what maybe five total five or six people total that knew that were kind of involved in helping this happen. Um, and we but it we just felt like no, we've got it, we've got to figure this out. We have a few days to figure it out, and then we can share.

SPEAKER_05 54:22

Yeah, you know. So we we went up, she was born on a on a Sunday, um, and we didn't meet her till Wednesday. We went up to the hospital because um, you know, Monday was the day we found out, Tuesday was a bunch of questions and just praying, like is this what we're supposed to do, you know? And you know, asking a lot of questions about her her health, uh the family's, you know, everything, this the situation.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Can I brag on you for a minute? Of course. This one this one helped me pray about it because y'all, I was ready to dive over the cliff instantly with no prayer and no claims. Yeah, and I'm not I'm not necessarily saying either position is bad.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Yeah, I think yeah, I think actually that's the beauty of marriage and the way it should work. Even though in the moment it doesn't always feel good, I'm kind of wanting, I'm kind of over there going, what the heck are you waiting on? And he's going, um, hey babe.

unknown 55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

And but I think that's the beauty of marriage. God gives you both so that you can balance each other out.

SPEAKER_05 55:26

Yeah, because at the same time, I mean, there were gonna be finances involved that we did not have, you know, attorney fees and home study and um just other little ancillary things that were gonna come up that we're like, we don't have that.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:40

Um and so we met her on we met her on a Wednesday night. I remember going up there, and um just it it just fit. Like I don't know any other way to say it other than she hadn't eaten much in the Nikyu. Yeah. And when Kara fed her her first bottle from Kara, I mean she drank it right down. It was one of those mom moments for her that she'll never forget of just like, yeah, this is there's there's a there's a connection here, and like even looking at the photos that we have now of just her her eyes lighting up, you know, in a in that little three-day old way, you know, it just fit. And um I'll let her fill in the gaps where she wants. But the next day we um we brought the boys up, and um which was un wasn't a normal thing. They don't normally let kids back in the in the IC in the NICU. Yeah. Um, but when the nurses heard about our story, they were like, You're coming. You're we're bringing all the boys.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

And I remember specifically said they have to meet her together.

SPEAKER_05 56:45

And and and another cool thing, Wednesday when when we met her, when we walked in the NICU, the nurses kind of looked at us like, Who are you? You know, like why are you here? Um, and we told them what we were doing, and the whole place erupted in celebration. Oh my god. Because there's so many stories of just babies even being abandoned in the NICU, you know, and just heartbroke, heartbreaking stories that happen in that facility. That when a story like ours comes through, it's like it's just a breath of fresh air for those nurses. So yeah. Um so uh Thursday the boys met, that was a special day. Um they just were anxious in a good way just to get there and you know, see her and um what they had hoped for had become reality all of a sudden. Yeah, you know, that but things they were that was already going to happen in their brain five years ago was it was coming into fruition. You know um Friday of that day was a hard day because we thought we were going to lose her because of the legal stuff. Um the Lord worked out that that's a whole nother podcast thing. The Lord worked that out in its own way. Um and she was born on a Sunday, and we took her home the following Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:00

So within a matter of seven days, we went from no no idea of a fifth baby little girl to um bringing her home one Sunday morning. I got her. I got her. I got her. I got her. I got her. So um, yeah, feel filling, feel in where I've forgotten.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

No, and I and I this is what I I think I love about the story is he there's things that he tells that I wouldn't necessarily like you know, I it's it's both of our stories intertwined into one. I think um one of my favorite parts about getting that phone call is when that message was being left, um, when he was in the right, I was actually at the pool with Jamie Harper. Um we were new friends, we'd not known each other maybe six months, I don't know. Um but we had not didn't know each other really well. Um, but you know, she had boys, I had boys, and so and they had a neighborhood pool, so we would go to the pool and I was there and we were we would just talk while the boys all played in the pool, you know. And I'll never forget she was kind of asking at me that day why we moved to Tennessee. And so I was kind of sharing with her, you know, well, you know, the unknowns of it, you know, that you we don't fully know, you know, why God moved us here. We just felt like God was so clearly saying, move, and we knew we'd be we would be disobedient not to. And I ended after sharing several things and you know, part bits of that story, I ended it with, and the reality of it is we don't know if our baby's gonna be here. It could be that you know, yeah, we felt all these years that we're called to adopt, maybe the baby's gonna be here in Tennessee. I had no idea in that moment as I shared that with her, and she reminded me later that week, um, because I had later that week the boys had gone to play with her boys, um, and I went to pick them up, and I walked into the house, and I had just told her on the phone when I was on the way that I had some time to hang out and visit just a little bit before I we left. And I walk in the door and I get a call from the hospital from one of the nurses, and I'm like, I have to oh my word, I have to take this call, like I have to make this call. And I called, I remember I called, I walked outside, I called Chris, and I was like, uh, babe, what do I do? Because if I leave, if I like go in there and tell her I have to leave, it's gonna be quite strange because I just told her I could hang out, like I just told her I have time. And I remember he was like, just tell her, do what you gotta do. Yeah. And I walked in and told, you know, shared with her, and it was so cool because God used her memory because I didn't remember that that had happened on Monday. And as I'm sharing with her this insane story, you know, like that it just happened in a few days. She was like, Do you remember what you said to me on Monday? And it was just so cool because I just it was all these little pieces, you know. And I remember on Wednesday when we were going to the hospital the first time to meet Cambry, and we didn't get to take the boys, and I had them in the car. I don't remember what we had been doing that day. I just remember we were driving in the car and I was kind of explaining to the boys. The boys were like, Why can't we go? You know, I mean, yeah, typical, excited, they had been anticipating for seven years for this sister since we had like told them we were gonna adopt. Yeah. And they're like, you know, begging. And I'm like, baby, you can't go today. But we you'll probably go tomorrow, you know. But tonight it's just dad and I. And then I just kind of told him, I said, guys, this is gonna change everything. But in so many great ways, I said, a baby needs a lot of care, a lot of time and attention and love. I said, but I want you guys to know like this is not gonna change our love for you guys at all. Like we're gonna, you know, we're not moving love that we have for y'all over to her. And Callan interrupts me and pipes up from the back of, you know, our SUV and says, Oh, we we know mom. Yeah, we he said, it's like God created a piece of our hearts for her from the very beginning. And I I'm like in the front seat going, Lord, I have to drive. I'm like crying and trying to not have a wreck. Yeah, but it was so cool because I just felt God in that moment, even just teaching me through my child of how he had designed family that I wasn't gonna have to muster up love for her. And that had been a question, I think it's a question everyone asks about adoption um or fostering, um, even just having a child. Yeah, I think we all ask ourselves, how am I gonna love this child? You don't have room for another child, another one, you know. Yeah. Um and I, you know, and I people mean well. We all mean, like, this is not a a malicious, you know, question. I think we all ask ourselves, you know, could I love a child that's not a biological child as much as a biological child? That's a valid question. I think for our human hearts, we cannot fathom if that's possible or not. So I don't think people ask that question out of um a lack of faith or you know, lack of love. I think it's just a human question. Absolutely. And in the state of our human hearts, we can't really understand that. But on this side of it, and in that moment, that was the beginning of my heart understanding. Wait, this is not about me. Like I didn't come up with my love for my boys. Doesn't matter that they're biological. God is the one that placed my love, that love in my heart for them from the beginning. Yeah, and I could already feel that that was beginning at the word baby when he mentioned it at 1 a.m. in the middle of the night, and the word baby is spoken. I was already feeling a love for a baby. I had no face to her.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

You know what I mean? I didn't know about her health. Yeah, we didn't know anything like where she was from, like nothing. But I can already I was like, Yeah, that's our baby. Yeah. And I think it that was when we started realizing this is something that if we are willing as parents to open our hearts and say yes to God, then He does the rest. I think so many times when we're closed to what God is doing, then yes, we suffer the consequences. But there are consequences to us closing our hearts down to what God wants to do. But I think if we're willing to open our hearts in fear, yeah, with doubting, with questions, then God really does the miracle in our hearts and minds. And I one more small piece of that timeline this that week, I called my mom on Thursday before we were taking the boys to go meet her. Um because I think I think we already knew. I mean, this is our baby, but like it now the ball's rolling. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like now, okay, we're taking the boys. And so I called my mom. He had told me, okay, you can call your mom, you know. And I called my mom and I I just said, I said, Mom, I have something big to tell you. And literally that woman could not keep, I mean, there was no pause. She just said, You have a baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Or there's a baby. I think it was that was her specific there's a baby. There's a baby. And I remember I just paused and I was like, How do you know? I was thinking, have I told somebody that's told you? And she just said, Kara, I've been praying for this for over a year. And I was like, Wait, what?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

And she just shared.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

Um sorry, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

I wish she was here to hear this. I remember her just saying, Kara, I didn't know adoptions were possible like spur of the moment. We didn't either. She said, but her worship pastor, Mark Jones, back in Texas, um him and his wife had gotten a phone call about a baby out of the blue and they adopted this little boy. And she said, when I learned their story, as I'm, you know, because she was very close to Mark. She was the pianist of the church, the church's worship team. And Mark and his wife were good friends at my parents. And um so she was like, This this story was very dear to her heart. She knew all the details of this story, and she said, I've been praying that this would happen to you guys ever since. And I didn't, she never told me that. And so when I said, Mom, I have something big to tell you, she just there's a baby. Yeah. She believed in that moment that God was giving the answer to her prayers. And so I just love that you, you know, God, you know, he God used our parents in our lives, obviously. But I I love that he used my mom in her prayers, yeah, you know, in this. Um she loved Cambri.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:26

She did.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

And Cambri loved her. Um, but that was a beautiful moment. Fast forward to that Sunday when we were going to pick her up. Sorry, y'all, for the tears. Don't be sorry. It was like I knew when we I had to postpone this. When my mom passed away, I was like, I'm never gonna get through this without tears. But um that Sunday when we were going to pick her up. Remember, we went to church that morning. And um because we were supposed to pick her up that afternoon, and only a couple people at the church knew. I mean, literally, like a couple. And I remember the sermon, God was so intentional in the sermon that that day. Blows my mind how he does these things. Yeah. Um, but I remember Charlie said towards the end of the sermon, he said someone he had been preaching about God's promises that he makes to us and um fulfills in our lives. But how a lot of times, you know, God makes a promise and then there's years of waiting sometimes, and we don't know. We have to trust God, you know, in that pro through that process. And as he was praying at the end, he just said, I just really strongly feel like there is someone here today who felt like God had given them a promise in their life, but it's been so long that you've built walls around your heart and protection, fearing that God wouldn't fulfill that promise. But today that promise is being fulfilled. Girl, I like I don't know if he remembers, but I ugly cried. He was like arm around me going, Are you gonna be okay? I was like, I was undone because I knew God was speaking directly to me, saying, 20 years felt like an eternity to you. And you I mean, I had built a fortress around my heart and didn't even really realize it. I think in my head I was still trusting God. But I think brick by brick, you know, day by day, month by month, as it didn't happen. Wow, yeah. I think I was starting to build up a fortress around my heart just in case. Just in case it didn't just in case God didn't come through. And in that moment, I just felt like God was saying, I I see you. I'm still here. And you can trust that I always follow through. So I our timing is not God's timing. Yes. Amen to that.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:59

Yeah. Um so we brought her home. Yeah. Um, but there were still months ahead of us. Um, you know, the finalization of an adoption takes takes months. Um we we were in for a six-month ride at minimum just per the state. Um and um we were having to like I said, we didn't have an attorney. We found a tremendous attorney uh reference through our friend Tony. Um and um uh Ned was amazing and believer and um walked us through all of our questions and amazing home study. But I'll tell you the one thing that was in that six months, even immediately, was uh the community. Yeah our community of people from our church, a gateway to friends and um industry folks to I mean we didn't have a diaper, you know, like and like they they they threw an emergency shower for us and they I mean we we were given funds and it just every penny, every ounce of clothing formula was just provided for and it really opened up this idea, and uh you know there may be people people listening or watching today that they like this doesn't resonate with me as like adoption. I don't feel like everybody's called to bring a baby home, but as the church, we're all there, we're all in this together to help those that all. Back to the James passage, like of just that idea of like um just supporting those that that have taken this, that have said yes to a dream, said yes to being obedient. And so we Canbry does not exist in our family without the community around us, you know, in those early days and the meals and people coming over to hold them. Y'all were one of the first ones that came over and held baby Canbry.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

We got pictures of I'll never forget it.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:10

And um yeah, it just if that's just even an encouragement, like that's just for me, it's like, man, you may not you may not be feel be called to bring a baby home from a from a hospital or a situation.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:23

Um, but even even just a pack of diapers means to go to an adoptive family and um you know, a meal that that that just shows that again the church being the church. So um so we brought her home uh eight months later we finalized. And uh we have I remember our courtroom scene uh when we when we finalized. I mean, so many friends, family, all of our family came in, and a lot of our family came in and just overwhelmed the judge in a good way. It was awesome, and one of the highlights of of our life was that day. And I'll never forget I have to share this quick story of that that moment where the judge was talking to us about her, you know, asking questions about just and and challenge in a good way challenging us about her being in our family, what that means. And and essentially she she said, you know, you could you could write all of the your boys out of your will, out of your estate.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:24

We won't.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:24

Which we won't.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

Don't worry, boys.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:26

As of now. As of right now. No, um we we legally could do that, but legally we can never remove Cambry from our will.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:37

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:37

And from our estate. She has been officially adopted and grafted into the Clayton name, and nothing can ever take her out of that. And I it hit me like a ton of bricks of the parallel of the gospel, absolutely of how you know we are adopted sons and daughters of God, and nothing can separate us from that, and nothing can ever remove us from that. Um, and you know, as Cambry starts to ask questions, and she's even asking now about faith in Jesus and salvation and what that means, like it's been a we've looked forward to these convers this conversation one day where we get to parallel that story with her adoption story. And uh it's just it's it's it's so cool how God uses the earthly thing of adoption in our in our context to parallel what he's done for us. Yeah. Um, and I just think that's a really special thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:31

And that ties in so great. I think that's one of the massive pieces that I think God kind of gave me as far as the picture of family, you know, going along with this. You know, you have Adam who was created, and God said it's not good for him to be alone. He creates Eve and then tells them to be fruitful and multiply. And I think you can parallel that with the body of Christ. We have, you know, Christ who's the groom and the church is the bride. And what has he called us to do is to go and make disciples of all nations, right? Baptizing them in the name of the Father. And I think it's such it's I mean, the family unit is an earthly picture of the body of Christ, right? The church. And so I think we see in real time right now, Satan hates families. Like that's the strongest unit God's created. He's created it as a mirror image of that church, you know, of the church and what we are supposed to be doing. Um, and you know, we're commanded to raise our children in the way they should go. And so you see attacks on every front of the family, you know, from divorce to, you know, what, unwed mothers, you know. Um, but you I mean, kids are ripped from their families or they're deprived from having the opportunity of having a whole family, you know, or two parents all the time. They're orphaned all the time. And I think this is a tact of the enemy because if he can isolate us from that family unit, then you know, and so I just think the family that's that's I think that's why my heart is so for families, because I'm like, when you can have a family that stays together through the hard, we've been through the hard, not the same heart as everyone else. Everybody's story is different. Yeah, but like we look at each other all the time and just tell each other, you know. In fact, Cambri asked us, you know, are y'all gonna get divorced one day? And we were like, No. Yeah, and it's hard, it's a real part of, you know, I mean, we have a lot of friends, it's a part of their story, and you know, no judgment on any of that. It's hard, it's a part of life, sadly. But I our heart is for family, you know, and we pray for families, like, and we want to help families fight to stay together, and we want to help parents fight for their kids and for their kids' salvation, you know, and for their kids to not walk away from faith one day. Um, and I think that's just why I just see I think we both just see such parallels in scripture um and just God's design for the family, and there's just such an attack on that. And so, you know, our hearts cry, I think, through sharing this story is just that that we can just come alongside other families who are walking through the fire, yeah, and just remind them and encourage them that there's another one in the fire with them who doesn't leave us, you know, he doesn't forsake us. It doesn't mean it's easy. Yeah, like it's almost never easy. I think when we answer the call and follow, you know, decide to answer say yes to God's call, we're also saying yes to the hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

Because the enemy is on attack. That's right. You know, I think, yeah, if we turn our backs to God and we do the worldly thing, sometimes he leaves us alone a bit. Doesn't mean life's gonna be easy, but but yeah, yeah, it's one of those parallels.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

Having had a literal front row seat to this entire journey starting at least at the 2014 timestamp, um as a friend and as a close friend, well done. Well done. And, you know, I get to be around your boys. Sometimes I'm around your boys more than I'm actually around the two of you because our house is like their their house too, which I love and absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. Um, you know, I'll I'll come come downstairs or come out of my room and there's a Clayton boy, you know, and it it's incredible. Um and just to see the fruit of how they have been raised and also the challenges, the testing of your faith, the perseverance of your faith and standing on the promise, the pain and heartache you've even been through this past year, these past months. Um, even the day that your mom went to heaven, you know, you went to go be with your family, and your boys came to be with us. Yeah. And we got to sit with them in that pain and hold them and love them and feed them and hug them and kiss them and tell them you're gonna be okay. But it's also okay to not be okay right now. Um I remember the morning you brought Cambry home and you FaceTimed. And I'm and I'm like, when you were FaceTiming, I was like, something must be terribly wrong, you know, for Karen to be FaceTiming me. And I clicked, you know, answer, and there was this gorgeous brown newborn baby. And then I'm like, I think I just renamed I was like, who is that? And and I think I even knew, I was like, what? How did this happen? You know, and um, and just tears of joy. And I mean, like within 30 minutes flat, we were at your house, just like, I don't care what time it is, we're coming, we're gonna hold her and kiss her and congratulate you. And um, and Cambry has been and continues to be the most delightful, spunky, life-filled little girl who in just three and a half months is turning eight years old, which is unbelievable. Um, absolutely, absolutely unbelievable. Um and so for these eight years, you've been walking out this promise. You've you've been on the other side of this of this promise while also stepping into promises with your boys and um them becoming adults now and and walking their own journeys. And um but I just want to say well done.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

And and we're so proud of you as friends. And I think sometimes as adults, we need to have another adult say, I'm proud of you. I see you, I value your story and the journey of faith that you have walked through. And Scott and I, just on behalf of our family, we so value the beauty of what God has woven in your story. It's it's it's one of those awe factor things where it's just like, wow, that we got to watch this and just be part of it, the joys and the tears. And I know that this is your first time on a public platform ever sharing this, which to me is such a huge honor that we've been able to to capture this. But as we kind of land this conversation now, what what would be just a final thought just from each of you? Just whether it's about parenting or standing on a promise or just anything, just just anything that you could leave with us from your from your heart to ours.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:54

Um Yeah, I would say um you never know what your yes is going to entail. There uh and I and two things come to mind on that. We could have never written the story. You know, Hollywood could have never scripted the story. Um the way, you know, the this is not how we imagined it would happen. Actually, it's way better, you know. It's way it's it's way more it's way more God glorifying than I ever imagined how it would have unfolded. But I often tell a lot of young creatives, because that's who I spend a lot of time with these days, um, when they move to Nashville, I always tell them, You moved here because of you, but be careful what other things God is gonna do as well. Because of your yes. And I be careful in a in a really great way. Because we moved here for essentially music and what I do. Sure. But it's now been fun to watch our boys find their bents. It's been our story is if we if we left Nashville tomorrow, which we're not going to, um it was a successful move because of what they've discovered. Yeah. And finding our daughter. Yeah. And so your yes will often be for one thing. You think it's one thing, but it often entails another thing. Yes, other other things so good. And uh and so true. And so remain open-handed and remain anchor up. You never know what the Lord has.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

That's so good, Kara.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:18

So I think my encouragement would just be that no matter what your family looks like, families look all different. Yeah, right. Um, and they're put together differently. Um, and so I I think my encouragement would just be to literally just dive in into being a parent, you know, or being a wife or a husband, or a single mom, or a single dad, um, or a couple with no children. Um, I know there's a lot of infertility people struggle with, but no matter what your family looks like, um, you know, maybe you're single and not married um and your family is people around you, friends. Um, I I would just I my encouragement would be to just press in to those that God has put in your life that are family. And don't limit, don't, don't put God in a box of what family has to look like. Family is not just blood, but it's so much more than that. Um, you know, don't don't limit God and just dive in. You know, I go back to that vision almost daily now because it just reminds me that not just my children's days or my days with my children are numbered, but just my days are numbered with everybody in my life. Yeah, you know, and especially since losing my mom a few months ago, the way we did and how sudden it was. I I just there's an urgency now, I think, in both Chris and my hearts to just live on mission and be intentional. And so that would be my encouragement to everyone is to just press into the family that God has given you, no matter what it looks like. So good. Um, and just truly believe that it's God that's ordained it and it's God that will do the work if we just rest in him and trust him and then say yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:14

So good. Chris, Kara, thank you so much for sharing. Thank you for having us. This has been so, so rich. If this story has moved you or touched you in any way, and maybe it came to mind somebody that you know that needs to hear this or watch this, just share it right now. Just take a minute and share it. Pass it along because I know that this story is going to bless so, so many people. Thank you for tuning in today. Thank you for listening, subscribing, and downloading. And until next time, friends, keep dreaming. Dreams don't come with the roadmap, only courage, curiosity, and the willingness to keep going. If today's story resonated with you, let it remind you that your journey matters, even if it's still unfolding. Thank you for spending this time with me today on the Dreamless Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave it with you, and share it with someone who needs a little inspiration today. Until next time, keep dreaming, keep moving, and request that we're still low lighting and what's coming. We'll see you on the next episode.